Comments on: The Laich Case http://dumpnchase.wordpress.com/2007/07/24/the-laich-case/ forechecking, backchecking, cycling ... and other (Washington) Capital ideas Mon, 06 Oct 2008 19:22:53 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=MU hourly 1 By: Blackjack for Brooks « Dump and Chase http://dumpnchase.wordpress.com/2007/07/24/the-laich-case/#comment-17617 Blackjack for Brooks « Dump and Chase Wed, 09 Jul 2008 13:44:16 +0000 http://dumpnchase.wordpress.com/2007/07/24/the-laich-case/#comment-17617 [...] what the hell Brooks Laich was thinking. They wondered why a guy with eight goals and 18 points would choose to have his salary for the upcoming season decided via the arbitration process. As with many things in this great game, it’s never as simple as the [...] [...] what the hell Brooks Laich was thinking. They wondered why a guy with eight goals and 18 points would choose to have his salary for the upcoming season decided via the arbitration process. As with many things in this great game, it’s never as simple as the [...]

]]> By: GoBucks9 http://dumpnchase.wordpress.com/2007/07/24/the-laich-case/#comment-6373 GoBucks9 Wed, 25 Jul 2007 16:57:25 +0000 http://dumpnchase.wordpress.com/2007/07/24/the-laich-case/#comment-6373 Paul Kariya declined 10million from the Ducks and then took under the league average (something like 1.2m) to become a UFA after his one year in Colorado. Paul Kariya declined 10million from the Ducks and then took under the league average (something like 1.2m) to become a UFA after his one year in Colorado.

]]> By: dumpnchase http://dumpnchase.wordpress.com/2007/07/24/the-laich-case/#comment-6372 dumpnchase Wed, 25 Jul 2007 16:29:53 +0000 http://dumpnchase.wordpress.com/2007/07/24/the-laich-case/#comment-6372 Doug, There's always the possibility of hurt feelings, but that's another reason why you try to avoid the process if you can. Just checked this year's arbitration scoreboard. So far, Laich's is the only case to be heard. Sixteen have already settled prior to hearing and 13 more are still on the books, waiting to be heard if necessary. Caps Nut, Wanting to get the process over is a possibility too. My take on this one is that the one-way is something the Laich side wants, but as I said before if it was merely the one-way deal it never would have gone to a hearing. If memory serves, Witt whacked his agent after his "bad beat" in arb and negotiated his next deal on his own. FS, It's 48 hours from the end of the hearing, not the beginning. Not sure how long the Laich hearing actually took, but each side is allotted somewhere between 60-90 mins to make its case, and then there is also time allowed for rebuttals, etc. Mike, Agree that the hockey system is better than baseball's. I remember that case you mention where the guy filed for a lower salary to get UFA status a year earlier. Wish I could remember who it was. Doug,
There’s always the possibility of hurt feelings, but that’s another reason why you try to avoid the process if you can. Just checked this year’s arbitration scoreboard. So far, Laich’s is the only case to be heard. Sixteen have already settled prior to hearing and 13 more are still on the books, waiting to be heard if necessary.

Caps Nut,
Wanting to get the process over is a possibility too. My take on this one is that the one-way is something the Laich side wants, but as I said before if it was merely the one-way deal it never would have gone to a hearing. If memory serves, Witt whacked his agent after his “bad beat” in arb and negotiated his next deal on his own.

FS,
It’s 48 hours from the end of the hearing, not the beginning. Not sure how long the Laich hearing actually took, but each side is allotted somewhere between 60-90 mins to make its case, and then there is also time allowed for rebuttals, etc.

Mike,
Agree that the hockey system is better than baseball’s. I remember that case you mention where the guy filed for a lower salary to get UFA status a year earlier. Wish I could remember who it was.

]]> By: Mike L http://dumpnchase.wordpress.com/2007/07/24/the-laich-case/#comment-6369 Mike L Wed, 25 Jul 2007 15:15:18 +0000 http://dumpnchase.wordpress.com/2007/07/24/the-laich-case/#comment-6369 Hey Mike, The fact that Mr. Arbitrator can pick any figure at all is a good thing as opposed to baseball's take this one or that one. (Bill James wrote a terrific essay on the arbtration process in baseball a few years ago, it really opened my eyes. Before that I thought it was a hostile process, but what it really is is a simple way to settle an impasse.) I still say that the big issue in this is the one-way/two-way. Since we don't know the figures the two sides filed it, is possible that the Caps filed a higher salary figure with a two-way deal, while Laich's people filed a lower number on a one-way deal. There was acutally a case back in the late 1990s where a player held out for less money so that his salary would be under the league average, so he could become a UFA one year earlier.... Hey Mike,

The fact that Mr. Arbitrator can pick any figure at all is a good thing as opposed to baseball’s take this one or that one. (Bill James wrote a terrific essay on the arbtration process in baseball a few years ago, it really opened my eyes. Before that I thought it was a hostile process, but what it really is is a simple way to settle an impasse.)

I still say that the big issue in this is the one-way/two-way. Since we don’t know the figures the two sides filed it, is possible that the Caps filed a higher salary figure with a two-way deal, while Laich’s people filed a lower number on a one-way deal.

There was acutally a case back in the late 1990s where a player held out for less money so that his salary would be under the league average, so he could become a UFA one year earlier….

]]> By: FS http://dumpnchase.wordpress.com/2007/07/24/the-laich-case/#comment-6367 FS Wed, 25 Jul 2007 14:18:00 +0000 http://dumpnchase.wordpress.com/2007/07/24/the-laich-case/#comment-6367 Ok, Mike, it's been 48 hours. Where's the verdict? Ok, Mike, it’s been 48 hours. Where’s the verdict?

]]> By: Caps Nut http://dumpnchase.wordpress.com/2007/07/24/the-laich-case/#comment-6365 Caps Nut Wed, 25 Jul 2007 13:09:48 +0000 http://dumpnchase.wordpress.com/2007/07/24/the-laich-case/#comment-6365 I agree that Laich could be looking for a one-way deal but what about the possibility that the player just wants to get the whole process over with? If I remember correctly, that's why Brendan Witt chose arbitration many years ago. While he got his feelings hurt, he was more interested in getting the contract finalized rather than dragging the whole process out and didn't even bother with an agent. I agree that Laich could be looking for a one-way deal but what about the possibility that the player just wants to get the whole process over with? If I remember correctly, that’s why Brendan Witt chose arbitration many years ago. While he got his feelings hurt, he was more interested in getting the contract finalized rather than dragging the whole process out and didn’t even bother with an agent.

]]> By: doug http://dumpnchase.wordpress.com/2007/07/24/the-laich-case/#comment-6350 doug Wed, 25 Jul 2007 02:51:43 +0000 http://dumpnchase.wordpress.com/2007/07/24/the-laich-case/#comment-6350 Mike, good information on the arbitration process, but isn't it usually the case that arbitration hearings drive a wedge between players & manaagement? e.g. won't Laich and Jurcina feel at least slightly "bitter" towards the Caps because of this process? What if Jurcina has a great year and we would like to have him around for awhile, won't that enter into the players mind when they start talking a long term deal? As a fan, I guess I forget that hockey is still a business, and a business has to be run by business personnel, and NOT the fans. Mike, good information on the arbitration process, but isn’t it usually the case that arbitration hearings drive a wedge between players & manaagement? e.g. won’t Laich and Jurcina feel at least slightly “bitter” towards the Caps because of this process? What if Jurcina has a great year and we would like to have him around for awhile, won’t that enter into the players mind when they start talking a long term deal? As a fan, I guess I forget that hockey is still a business, and a business has to be run by business personnel, and NOT the fans.

]]> By: Top Posts « WordPress.com http://dumpnchase.wordpress.com/2007/07/24/the-laich-case/#comment-6344 Top Posts « WordPress.com Wed, 25 Jul 2007 00:01:23 +0000 http://dumpnchase.wordpress.com/2007/07/24/the-laich-case/#comment-6344 [...] The Laich Case At 9 a.m on Monday in Toronto, an arbitration hearing to determine Brooks Laich’s salary for the 2007-08 season […] [...] [...] The Laich Case At 9 a.m on Monday in Toronto, an arbitration hearing to determine Brooks Laich’s salary for the 2007-08 season […] [...]

]]> By: dumpnchase http://dumpnchase.wordpress.com/2007/07/24/the-laich-case/#comment-6343 dumpnchase Tue, 24 Jul 2007 23:57:30 +0000 http://dumpnchase.wordpress.com/2007/07/24/the-laich-case/#comment-6343 Empty, Laich's hearing was in Toronto and McPhee ate lunch in DC. The stats aren't the only means of determination, and Sutherby is not a comparable, so Laich "could" get more than Sutherby. We'll find out tomorrow. I agree that a walk away award is not going to happen no way no how, but beyond that, none of us (expect those in the room y-day) really knows how it's going to turn out. And that's exactly why GMs and owners hate arbitration. It's not so much of an excellent adventure for them. ;) Empty,
Laich’s hearing was in Toronto and McPhee ate lunch in DC. The stats aren’t the only means of determination, and Sutherby is not a comparable, so Laich “could” get more than Sutherby. We’ll find out tomorrow. I agree that a walk away award is not going to happen no way no how, but beyond that, none of us (expect those in the room y-day) really knows how it’s going to turn out. And that’s exactly why GMs and owners hate arbitration.

It’s not so much of an excellent adventure for them. ;)

]]> By: Empty Maybe http://dumpnchase.wordpress.com/2007/07/24/the-laich-case/#comment-6342 Empty Maybe Tue, 24 Jul 2007 23:45:48 +0000 http://dumpnchase.wordpress.com/2007/07/24/the-laich-case/#comment-6342 Think I got a little off-track there, at the end, so my main point: San Diemas high school football rules. Think I got a little off-track there, at the end, so my main point:

San Diemas high school football rules.

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